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tv   Inside Story 2017 Ep 350  Al Jazeera  December 17, 2017 8:32pm-9:01pm +03

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there's solidarity in rio against president donald trump's resignation of jerusalem as the capital of israel two suicide bombers attacked a church in southwest pakistan killing at least eight people and injuring dozens more gunman wearing explosive vest tried to storm the christian methodist church in quetta city opening fire on the sunday worshippers i still claim responsibility chill a ns a voting to choose a new president in the election runoff voters in the south american nation of choosing between conservative billionaire and former presidents about an era and the center left candidate are one hundred. south africa's ruling party the african national congress has formally nominated two candidates for election as their president they are a.n.c. veteran and meanies among the former wife of the current president in and seated jacob zuma and his deputy president cyril ramaphosa. the man leading the investigation into whether russia meddled with the us election is being accused of illegally obtaining e-mails the accusation against special counsel has been made by
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a lawyer from the team set up to help president donald trump's transition into the white house. several hundred protesters led by the opposition leader mikhail saakashvili have tried to storm a public building in the ukrainian capital kiev there to bring you much more on that story and everything else in about twenty five minutes time i'll have the news out for you so do join me then but inside story is coming up next. spain's prime minister calls for a return to normality in catalonia and the region prepares yet again to vote but after the castle an independent ordered by government leaders. what is the future
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of home this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm dead decision day is fast approaching in catalonia thursday's snapp regional election was ordered by spain's government leaders in madrid after cattle voted for independence in the referendum two months ago voters go to the poll again what's the mood there now we'll speak to our guests in a moment but first karl penhall reports from barcelona on the catalans against independence were making their voices heard. she's emerging as the great hope of the anti independent school see if you. are you feeling
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i was i. to catalogue you from southern spain a decade ago. as regional leader of the citizens party she's promising a catalonian spring. to defeat politicians pushing for separation. but it was thanks to a vote for the citizens party is a vote today for spain but not to break it out. tax laws and tackle corruption. catalonia must remain part of spain and. in the latest opinion polls the citizens party is running neck and neck with the biggest pro independence party but if you need a mother's hope to control the capital parliament they'll have to build a coalition thank you very mother says prosper message points already echoing this
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crowd. of seventy separatists and the separatist movement you can't break that's impossible. there are many more of us who are opposed to independence but we kept our mouths shut at the time is here and they can no longer keep us silent draped in spanish these school friends are too young to vote program to take part in. knowing i think we have more doors open to the world of catalonia as part of spain and that way we have access to the rest of europe. government leaders in madrid of extra security to protect us against candidates from opposing a separatist groups in the campaign the election on december twenty first an hour a mother seems relaxed surrounded by her loyalists and confident she can pull in the votes. company. possibly spent.
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well catalonia former president carter and his supporters have held a major rally ahead of next week's snap regional pool addressed friday's campaign event in barcelona via video from brussels where he fled following the region's unilateral declaration of independence in october and addressing his supporters this is what he said if we want an independent state let's vote on let's vote like an independent state and therefore let's defeat pessimism defeat the darkness of article one fifty five and let's help expel the fear from our streets so if we just take a closer look at what happened recently when the catalan parliament declared outright independence in october leaders of spain's government in madrid crackdown hard arguing they were upholding the constitution the spanish government fired the leaders of the catalan government and dissolved the regional parliament in
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barcelona in a first for a spain the prime minister mariano jorge invoked article one fifty five of the constitution therefore imposing direct control with no international recognition and little sympathy from neighbors in the european union the secessionists were able to implement their breakaway let's bring in our guests joining us for this discussion from madrid we have to get. a political analyst and contributor to the new york times on the guardian from barcelona sonya those of lecture at the university barcelona also from madrid daniel gone the editor of the spanish edition of this or three letters magazine thanks for joining us on inside story welcome to you all daniel the ousted president of catalonia he's in exile fighting extradition the former vice president is behind bars accused of rebellion and sedition other
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officials are either in jail or that they're out of barcelona so this is very very unprecedented how unprecedented is it for an election to be held under these circumstances. well i think it's as you say his name is very ampicillin because they were expensive and they got a one hundred fifty five course was never. to do that is not so this equation is you see you know i'm president in their business and i think that the then this flew over who the normal politics but obviously the seventies tends campaign with this sort of think sadly in some of these candidates in recent i think this. makes that they sent me a while are full and i'm very emotional. and if you don't campaign miguel is it going to be possible to go back to normal politics as daniel is saying the ousted leader the name of the former leader pitzer ma is saying that these are absolutely
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abnormal conditions his rights. well he's right in the doubt that these are normal conditions to going back to normality of course that is what was promised by the central government to all the spaniards and to the supporters of the press paint position in catalonia that these elections would sort things out well there are some was that the nationalist after having failed in the before independence would become disappointed it would not be perhaps even willing to vote in an election that was called by the central government well but that hasn't been the case to the surprise of many the truth is that the nationalists remain more or less where they were the strength they have according to the polls and the falls are not mistaken of course is basically the same force they had now the new aspect here is that there is. well something new the those who oppose independence the
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prime the prospect in party so to speak which is a percentage acted by three different forces how it is now energized and could perhaps change things in this election but honestly if for what we see in the polls i don't think that is very likely it's possible but it's unlikely the most likely scenario is that we will go back more or less to work we were forced lots of things have happened in between but the nationalists will probably have a natural probably have if not an absolute majority they will be able to form a government and well we will be back to a very of a situation of conflict very soon before we get into the polls actually in your individual prediction sonia you're at the heart of it you're in barcelona just tell us what impact the absence of these leaders is having on this election campaign and the days leading up to the election actually quite agreed with me and i'm here because it's very appealing elections in many senses but in particular the point of
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pendants vote here is it's out. very very strange situation as you said many can see there the cutting and politicians in brussels to be in exile but definitely they are pending trial and then part of the country needs are also in jail. here it feels we've been in a roller coaster of emotions we get i think we're saying it's a very emotional election because things happen many things have happened in this past month every week changes a little bit perceptions and voting tension and the polls are coming up and down so it's very interesting for us political analysts but it's very hard for normal average voter to make its calculation so what i've said and then the recent polling that i have seen at least from. saying that the of the pro unity in the pro and independence camps are really running neck and neck at this point yes so that is
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because i think we go was just saying for the october the first all the people who were appointed pennants mainly went to vote as it was only organized by one part and now we're going to have more mobility just pro remain sector voters but it seems not just the place but the three four main polls that we follow here in spain it's aims it's not clear at all and it's going to be very difficult there's not going to be any single clear winner but it's going to be very difficult to create a coalition that can go back because creating a majority it's going to be very hot so i'm afraid as we go say we are going to leave fortunately in council i mean a date and we're just going to go back into the loop to the first position where it is we have a conflict here that needs to be solved and until the main actors don't address the background conflict elections are quite useless daniel what do you what do you
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think are we going to be looking at weeks of haggling between different parties trying to form. may coalesce in government after this vote takes place on thursday when no one when an outright majority. yes i think that many things that we don't know it seems that the two rocks more or less than the it's going to be very difficult to do phone to form a government they think we are going to be looking not only weeks months maybe even months of negotiation that is going to be very very hard to. do this is there some so now in the campaign differences between the main blocs a nationalized in the south and also in the constitution and so i think you. know what we figured out there were there was silence now is mostly about that if you can think of for me in our government now on one of the so
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i think someone was saying that in some senses we're going to. be getting back at it from the first position miguel but there is another party here isn't there a seventh party and that is the left wing desk there must excuse me but they must party does that party that hold the balance of power how keen is that i mean the leader as of the party are certainly playing it up. well that is that is a key point when i was saying that the nationalists have a slide in the polls i meant it not just in quantity of terms and the fact that they have a little bit more votes according to most polls not all polls that are polls that said that the unionists are ahead but i was also referring to these to the fact that even if the nationalists do not succeed in securing an absolute majority say they are short of eight to four by several seats they can the skill to will form
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a government because there is this party which is known in spain as pull their most but is known in catalonia as catalonia. these party is a leftist party it's not growing dependence though there are people there are leaders and certainly many of its voters who are trying to bend and this party will not vote for independence government but it will not oppose it either probably of course this is an assumption but i think it's a safe assumption that if the nationalists present a candidate for the presidency they will have to stay in and that will give the nationalists the government but it's oh yes they're you know even if they still win votes may get even if they do win votes does that necessarily mean that that translates into seats yes it's the most likely scenario because if the polls are correct and again of course we have to be very always cautious with these because polls sometimes are one of the of the mog but if the polls are correct yes the
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nationalists either will have an absolute majority in that case there is no question that will form a government all that will be short of obama's your duty but not by much in that case yes dissension will give them the government and that would be really a problem for the central government for misdemeanor a whole of the prime minister because obviously the promise of these elections was from the point of view of the spanish government that this will sort out all these problems well. not only that will not happen but actually things will be in a way worse because as we all know the the likely precedent of these new national governments will be either mr push them on. well he's. in belgium he has escaped the action of spanish justice or in exile according to his through his use of the term or perhaps even worse mr rajan creators who is in jail so this will cause an international uproar and it will be difficult to manage for the government not impossible i think they they have ways to to sort it out but but
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it's not what was expected certainly sony i give us a sense of you know you often hear of how polarized catalonia has become over this issue of separating into session ism give us a sense of how it is today on the days leading up to this election i think well we are definitely polar ice would like i said we aren't but i think tension has gone a little bit low where it's last week i think there is a bit of tightness on both sides obviously each side most who process it does who are super excited about going for elections and then definitely either pro proving the point or penances winning or proving that pro unionism is is winning right but the majority of the people you know we been having many for example many public demonstrations or people were banging kitchen parts
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for months this has gone low where this last two months i think the plunder pendants sector voters where it beat lost in translation the last week there were some. statements from the leaders saying oh maybe we shouldn't have done it or maybe in this sense we were not one hundred percent fair to the population to the people then also. it's been a one hundred fifty five article has been quite strong not only at a political level but it has affected our the levels like for example university is that centers not receiving transfers it is creating practica. less at least so there seems to be a kind of tiredness more than anything else but still in the background everyone is hoping for a solution which i am very sorry to say i really don't think these elections will be a solution i don't know when they where we had the cold for elections from mr hall
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and i already was very critical about it because i really think this is not going to bring a solution to the independence or not in the pendants conflict and without solving that conflict i'm very skeptical about how i was supposed to continue go varying other issues such as show social issues and occasional issues economic issues if we have heart of the population still claiming we might want at least a referendum so it's very difficult we'll get back to the points you're raised on solutions in just a moment but daniel let me ask you this for the pro independence groups if they come out and they lose the majority that they've had since twenty fifteen how big a setback is that going to be for this person for independence and breaking away from madrid. i don't know because i think one thing that kind of been.
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very skillful use to spin or has not happened to make it something for the for building things i think. we could see maybe. votes which was what happened arson two thousand in a row not in suits but. i don't think i think you are sitting there logic of the of the campaign makes it more difficult to see some of these in what has happened in that in the last few months if you are a person who lives in an event because it is the us no you are thinking about the next election i will use this phone or struggle. then we know you are based in the other party's now and so you is not maybe the best moment to have only. those mistakes that i think you only made in the sand with
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you if you think about the results of of the you know. before independence i mean hell at the time of the vote in october we know that the e.u. kind of was watching very closely the situation that was unfolding but generally it did tend to side with a madrid's when it came to this issue one the air doesn't have a mandate to intervene but do you think that there's something going on behind the scenes could they even now be mediating in any way and i and i raise this issue because i'll go back to song in a moment because she was talking about potential solutions so does that mean you have a solution. i don't think so i think it's unlikely that the you negotiate in behind the box of the spanish government certainly not but even trying to influence the spanish government at this point this was the assumption by the nationalists they thought that the europe would step in especially if there was violence the
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worst some violence police violence i was there in the during the referendum vote covering the story and yes there was indeed police violence but this europe is different it's changed in a matter of a couple of years is that this post presses europe or bracks of europe actually writes it has not happened yet is there for and its much more interested in preserving its unity is much more keen on the founding that the member states and of course the spain is an important member state is a member is a euro member and it's an important part of the european union so i think mr ruff boy can count on the support of european union all the way except of course in the circumstance that things spiral out of control there is a huge economic crisis that could threaten the euro area that does violence but i think bodies are almost impossible now this could have happened in the past few
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weeks when there was that the curation of independence namely that was the keep moments of tension in which things could have gone very very wrong it didn't happen the nationalists for some reasons that have not really been explained still by them they really let it go they the turd in the pens by didn't follow up they didn't do anything about it so there was no violence that is a good thing but that was the only opportunity i think they have of bringing in europe into this into the picture i don't think i don't think europe will have a say in place so nia you are spoke of solutions clearly there are differences between barcelona and madrid do you think some sort of deal is going to be read stuart is the way forward here. no i'm not positive and i'm not very hopeful about it right now i agree with. dani and that many people thought or the point about this woman at least tried to build this narrative that the european union
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would never allow. catalonia to face and very dramatic of. i don't know control or dramatically effects from madrid and definitely many many people were deceived when after police brutality in am or the images that we have all seen the european union was very low or very mild in its critique to spain that said as a professor of international relations i keep telling in class the european union is a union of states and therefore one thing is what you can expect and the other is what you can legitimately hope for so i think it's very logical from a state's perspective if it's a clash of states we're going to protect state members and therefore we're going to just support states or gravity accept your opinion and tries to send this message to the world that we are the leaders of individual rights political rights and all
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these rights that you cannot seem all the parts of the world and that's why i think many people in catalonia expected the european union to be stronger about capital and rights to decide on whether what they want as a political model and just to call it off or to tell us about how the government is dealing with this crisis for the sake of time daniel final word to you tell me how you see things unfolding after the vote this week. well i don't know i think the elections i'm seeing in even some of these forums and we are now we are talking about on. this one they want to learn. immediate solution but i think. it will be. as that i hope that. another way of solving this. conflict what it needs is but the thing is that there
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are many different points of view and nobody knows what it is there's. a constitutional reform and i think this is what we will finally need. for that we need. this position to debate on is near the alley. so we thought. so it was always as this election then on thursday set the stage for that does that a start a conversation that needs to be started yes that's that's what they will. happen and we can see more clearly how. we're going to see this further up what happens after. i don't i know you see the. little bit of. it's good to have some optimism so on that note we'll leave it there we thank you very much sir for joining us that daniela desk on that song and dolls
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and miguel and oh my god or thank you and thank you for watching you can see this program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com for further discussion you can go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story and you can join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story for myself and the whole team there and our hop thanks for joining us the bye for now. thanks . facing realities if a piece of machinery goes wrong is there
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a chain of all of this to get a ship through which we can bring in legal systems a bad getting to the heart of the matter i don't think we need of the wall but some of my good issues just to hear their story on talk to al-jazeera at this time. al-jazeera. where every. once welcomed now fear. and dividing a nation. al-jazeera explores germany's long term economic strategy of pursuing
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